THE REWRITING OF ROMANS 7 [1467b]

It seems the simplest way of projecting a true understanding of Romans 7 is to simply rewrite it in a way which is understandable. Few would deny that this chapter has its difficulties, although it depends a lot on your spiritual insight it would seem. Then there is the whole issue of scholarship and traditional understanding and intellectual abilities available. There are many famous theologians over the years who have proposed various viewpoints and ‘angles’ on this chapter.

This will possibly be a draft for another attempt to follow, (probably not). I will have to see how it goes.

EXPLANATORY PREFACE. Chapter 7 has a minor beginning at the existing 7-1, but which beginning should probably have been left until 7-7. From 7-1 to 7-6 he has entered his new subject of the examination of the law, which law they have now left behind them in their change of covenants.

7-5 explains the old state (covenant) they have left, and 7-6 reaffirms the new state  (covenant) they have entered.

PAUL EXPLAINS THE OLD COVENENT.

It now remains for Paul to explain just why this change was necessary, and so he begins his chain of mental thought processes which will enable us to see what is going on (or not). He works out that the law killed him. WAS THE LAW SIN? He explains that no it was not the law that was the problem, but sin.

Then he enters into the matter of where this sin came from, that it is in us. So then he examines the nature, his nature, our nature, that this law came to, which resulted in his and our death because of this indwelling sin.

Not having come down from heaven as the law had, but being simply one of humanity, one of Adam’s nature, then he had no defense for this nature when it was challenged by the nature of the law, and no defense as to it’s actions as it was provoked into sin by this law.

Recognising right from wrong, and being desirous of being ‘right’, righteous; But having this right and wrong magnified perfectly by the law, made his position even less tenable than before the law confirmed his sinful nature.

This leads to him being a “wretched man”. The answer to his problem is Jesus, as seen in Romans 8.

REWRITING CHAPTER 7.

7-4. Therefore, my brothers, you also were divorced from the law, made to die to it through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit (thoughts and actions) for God.

7-5. For while we were, as long as we were, in our Adamic humanity, while we were not yet in the Spirit, but living under the law, alive to the law, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in the various parts of our body, resulting in fruit (thoughts and actions) for death.

7-6  BUT NOW we have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the SPIRIT and not in oldness of the letter, the written law of God.

AND SO HE SUMS UP THE NEW COVENENT POSITION AS HAVING LEFT THE OLD COVENENT ADAMIC NATURE AND HAVING ENTERED INTO THE SPIRIT NATURE.

7-7. WHAT SHOULD WE SAY ABOUT THE LAW THEN?

What shall we say then, is the law sin? Well if not for the law, my inferior position, and that of the old covenant, would not have been fully exposed. For example, I would not even have known what coveting was if the law had not said “do not covet”.

7-8  But sin, provoked and enabled by the commandment, deceived me and created opportunities by which to create in me all manner of covetousness, for APART from law, sin is dead. [So sin is only alive in the presence of law, it has no life in the presence of Spirit.]

7-9  Law came to me when I was ignorantly alive apart from it, happily indulging my “flesh”, my natural human nature, but because the law of right and wrong came in fullness, I died. My conscience became loaded up with the knowledge of sin and its consequences, with guilt and trepidation.

7-10  And this commandment, which if followed through in all its details, would have enabled the path of  life to become visible to me, did the very opposite, it caused my death.

7-11.   Because sin, exploring every avenue available to it within my natural capacity for human thought, deceived me, deviated me from truth and detoured me from the right path into an outcome of death.

7-12.  SO THEN. (conclusion). The law is holy and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

7-13.  THEREFORE (because of the foregoing) did that which is good cause my death, even though without it, it would not have had the power to do so? NO! It was sin effecting my death through what was good, so that which is good might become  the means of exposing that which is bad.

PAUL NOW FINISHES THE FIRST PART OF HIS DEDUCTIVE REASONING AS TO THE NATURE OF LAW AND SIN, AND NOW TURNS THE ATTENTION UPON HIMSELF TO EXPOSE THE NATURE OF SIN IN HIM AND ALL MANKIND.

7-14.  So we know the law IS spiritual, but I am of Adam’s race which is of a self serving nature, and definitely NOT spiritual. This nature is tied to sin, glued to it, and lives in it, and is enslaved by it.

7-15.  For from experience, that which I have found myself to do from out of this Adamic nature, I have never understood, for I don’t do what I would like to do, what I try to do, but I do the very thing I hate.

7-16.  But if I do what I don’t wish to do, in contradiction of that good as in accordance with law that I would like to do, then I have to agree with the law and say that it is good.

7-17.  So this shows that it is not my will in charge of me, but sin’s will that is in charge of me, controlling me, and resulting in an outcome that is AGAINST my will. It is sin that indwells me that does it.

7-18.  For I know, I have experiential knowledge of, the fact that nothing good dwells in me, or to be more specific, in my flesh, my Adamic nature. Because the wishing to do good is in me but the doing of it is not. It is proven.

7-19.  Because the good that I WISH, that I initiate from MY will to do, doesn’t happen – the outcome is the evil that I do not wish or will to do.

7-20.  But if I do that which I do not wish to do, it’s no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. (Has its own life because of law).

7-21.  I CONCLUDE then that the PRINCIPLE [law or rule] of evil is in me, the one who wishes to do good.

7-22.  For I happily agree with the law of God in my innermost self, in my rational mind of good intentions.

7-23.  But I see a DIFFERENT law, a different principle in my bodily makeup, my thoughts deeds and actions, which opposes the ‘law’ of my mind and its good intentions, and instead, makes me, under law is constantly making me, a prisoner of the law of sin which resides in my bodily functions, my natural earthly makeup.

7-24.  Wretched person that I am! Who could possibly rescue me from this situation, from this body of death? [see 1 Cor. 15-56.  “For the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law, but thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Christ”.]

7-25.  Thanks be to God that Jesus has removed us from this environment of law! So then, to conclude this matter of being under law, I find that I who of myself, (by myself) with my mind am always ready to [potentially] serve “a” lawfulness of God, am in agreeance with His goodness; but equally so, with my Adamic deficient human nature,  am always ready to  (potentially) serve the law of sin.

This “conclusion” is stating how that as natural human beings, although we agree with what is right, when put to the test we cannot do it. That if we are prodded by law, we will bite back with sin. Paul is saying that these are the two latent aspects (‘laws’) of our humanity which when shifted into the dynamics of an actual situation are always in conflict and always results in sin nature taking control over ‘our better self’.

AND THIS IS HOW IT IS UNDER LAW.  But then Romans 8 introduces to this situation, not law, but GRACE, and the whole thing changes from defeat to victory, because we are removed from law and placed under grace, now enjoying the emergent superiority of Spirit over the demise of the law. So “flesh” loses its power in accordance with “..the power of sin is THE LAW, BUT thanks be to God [who gives us the victory through Christ..”].   There is now NO condemnation for those in Jesus, because of what He has done. Rom 8-1,2.

From verse 14 onwards, it may very well be that Paul is not even specifically talking about being under ‘the’ law, but only about his natural nature, which he then compares with the [Mosaic] law to discover his lack of spiritual power to do anything good. The law then only both confirms and worsens his findings.

It is worth mentioning that those who take a different view of this chapter, who say it is about Paul “sinning”, should note that “without law sin is dead” and that sin in accordance with what they would say, is very much alive in potential power here, proving that the context is completely and only relevant to the situation of being “under law”, the old covenant and not the new covenant.

[Paul first explains that under law we are all dead, then explains the outworking of that death][the “works of the flesh”]

 

 

THE REWRITING OF ROMANS 7 [1467a]

It seems the simplest way of projecting a true understanding of Romans 7 is to simply rewrite it in a way which is understandable. Few would deny that this chapter has its difficulties, although it depends a lot on your spiritual insight it would seem. Then there is the whole issue of scholarship and traditional understanding and intellectual abilities available. There are many famous theologians over the years who have proposed various viewpoints and ‘angles’ on this chapter.

This will possibly be a draft for another attempt to follow, (probably not). I will have to see how it goes.

EXPLANATORY PREFACE. Chapter 7 has a minor beginning at the existing 7-1, but which beginning should probably have been left until 7-7. From 7-1 to 7-6 he has entered his new subject of the examination of the law, which law they have now left behind them in their change of covenants.

7-5 explains the old state (covenant) they have left, and 7-6 reaffirms the new state  (covenant) they have entered.

PAUL EXPLAINS THE OLD COVENENT.

It now remains for Paul to explain just why this change was necessary, and so he begins his chain of mental thought processes which will enable us to see what is going on (or not). He works out that the law killed him. WAS THE LAW SIN? He explains that no it was not the law that was the problem, but sin.

Then he enters into the matter of where this sin came from, that it is in us. So then he examines the nature, his nature, our nature, that this law came to, which resulted in his and our death because of this indwelling sin.

Not having come down from heaven as the law had, but being simply one of humanity, one of Adam’s nature, then he had no defense for this nature when it was challenged by the nature of the law, and no defense as to it’s actions as it was provoked into sin by this law.

Recognising right from wrong, and being desirous of being ‘right’, righteous; But having this right and wrong magnified perfectly by the law, made his position even less tenable than before the law confirmed his sinful nature.

This leads to him being a “wretched man”. The answer to his problem is Jesus, as seen in Romans 8.

REWRITING CHAPTER 7.

7-4. Therefore, my brothers, you also were divorced from the law, made to die to it through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit (thoughts and actions) for God.

7-5. For while we were, as long as we were, in our Adamic humanity, while we were not yet in the Spirit, but living under the law, alive to the law, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in the various parts of our body, resulting in fruit (thoughts and actions) for death.

7-6  BUT NOW we have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the SPIRIT and not in oldness of the letter, the written law of God.

AND SO HE SUMS UP THE NEW COVENENT POSITION AS HAVING LEFT THE OLD COVENENT ADAMIC NATURE AND HAVING ENTERED INTO THE SPIRIT NATURE.

7-7. WHAT SHOULD WE SAY ABOUT THE LAW THEN?

What shall we say then, is the law sin? Well if not for the law, my inferior position, and that of the old covenant, would not have been fully exposed. For example, I would not even have known what coveting was if the law had not said “do not covet”.

7-8  But sin, provoked and enabled by the commandment, deceived me and created opportunities by which to create in me all manner of covetousness, for APART from law, sin is dead. [So sin is only alive in the presence of law, it has no life in the presence of Spirit.]

7-9  Law came to me when I was ignorantly alive apart from it, happily indulging my “flesh”, my natural human nature, but because the law of right and wrong came in fullness, I died. My conscience became loaded up with the knowledge of sin and its consequences, with guilt and trepidation.

7-10  And this commandment, which if followed through in all its details, would have enabled the path of  life to become visible to me, did the very opposite, it caused my death.

7-11.   Because sin, exploring every avenue available to it within my natural capacity for human thought, deceived me, deviated me from truth and detoured me from the right path into an outcome of death.

7-12.  SO THEN. (conclusion). The law is holy and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

7-13.  THEREFORE (because of the foregoing) did that which is good cause my death, even though without it, it would not have had the power to do so? NO! It was sin effecting my death through what was good, so that which is good might become  the means of exposing that which is bad.

PAUL NOW FINISHES THE FIRST PART OF HIS DEDUCTIVE REASONING AS TO THE NATURE OF LAW AND SIN, AND NOW TURNS THE ATTENTION UPON HIMSELF TO EXPOSE THE NATURE OF SIN IN HIM AND ALL MANKIND.

7-14.  So we know the law IS spiritual, but I am of Adam’s race which is of a self serving nature, and definitely NOT spiritual. This nature is tied to sin, glued to it, and lives in it, and is enslaved by it.

7-15.  For from experience, that which I have found myself to do from out of this Adamic nature, I have never understood, for I don’t do what I would like to do, what I try to do, but I do the very thing I hate.

7-16.  But if I do what I don’t wish to do, in contradiction of that good as in accordance with law that I would like to do, then I have to agree with the law and say that it is good.

7-17.  So this shows that it is not my will in charge of me, but sin’s will that is in charge of me, controlling me, and resulting in an outcome that is AGAINST my will. It is sin that indwells me that does it.

7-18.  For I know, I have experiential knowledge of, the fact that nothing good dwells in me, or to be more specific, in my flesh, my Adamic nature. Because the wishing to do good is in me but the doing of it is not. It is proven.

7-19.  Because the good that I WISH, that I initiate from MY will to do, doesn’t happen – the outcome is the evil that I do not wish or will to do.

7-20.  But if I do that which I do not wish to do, it’s no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. (Has its own life because of law).

7-21.  I CONCLUDE then that the PRINCIPLE [law or rule] of evil is in me, the one who wishes to do good.

7-22.  For I happily agree with the law of God in my innermost self, in my rational mind of good intentions.

7-23.  But I see a DIFFERENT law, a different principle in my bodily makeup, my thoughts deeds and actions, which opposes the ‘law’ of my mind and its good intentions, and instead, makes me, under law is constantly making me, a prisoner of the law of sin which resides in my bodily functions, my natural earthly makeup.

7-24.  Wretched person that I am! Who could possibly rescue me from this situation, from this body of death? [see 1 Cor. 15-56.  “For the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law, but thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Christ”.]

7-25.  Thanks be to God that Jesus has removed us from this environment of law! So then, to conclude this matter of being under law, I find that I who of myself, (by myself) with my mind am always ready to [potentially] serve “a” lawfulness of God, am in agreeance with His goodness; but equally so, with my Adamic deficient human nature,  am always ready to  (potentially) serve the law of sin.

This “conclusion” is stating how that as natural human beings, although we agree with what is right, when put to the test we cannot do it. That if we are prodded by law, we will bite back with sin. Paul is saying that these are the two latent aspects (‘laws’) of our humanity which when shifted into the dynamics of an actual situation are always in conflict and always results in sin nature taking control over ‘our better self’.

AND THIS IS HOW IT IS UNDER LAW.  But then Romans 8 introduces to this situation, not law, but GRACE, and the whole thing changes from defeat to victory, because we are removed from law and placed under grace, now enjoying the emergent superiority of Spirit over the demise of the law. So “flesh” loses its power in accordance with “..the power of sin is THE LAW, BUT thanks be to God [who gives us the victory through Christ..”].   There is now NO condemnation for those in Jesus, because of what He has done. Rom 8-1,2.

From verse 14 onwards, it may very well be that Paul is not even specifically talking about being under ‘the’ law, but only about his natural nature, which he then compares with the [Mosaic] law to discover his lack of spiritual power to do anything good. The law then only both confirms and worsens his findings.

It is worth mentioning that those who take a different view of this chapter, who say it is about Paul “sinning”, should note that “without law sin is dead” and that sin in accordance with what they would say, is very much alive in potential power here, proving that the context is completely and only relevant to the situation of being “under law”, the old covenant and not the new covenant.

[Paul first explains that under law we are all dead, then explains the outworking of that death][the “works of the flesh”]

 

 

THE REWRITING OF ROMANS 7 [1467]

It seems the simplest way of projecting a true understanding of Romans 7 is to simply rewrite it in a way which is understandable. Few would deny that this chapter has its difficulties, although it depends a lot on your spiritual insight it would seem. Then there is the whole issue of scholarship and traditional understanding and intellectual abilities available. There are many famous theologians over the years who have proposed various viewpoints and ‘angles’ on this chapter.

This will possibly be a draft for another attempt to follow, (probably not). I will have to see how it goes.

EXPLANATORY PREFACE. Chapter 7 has a minor beginning at the existing 7-1, but which beginning should probably have been left until 7-7. From 7-1 to 7-6 he has entered his new subject of the examination of the law, which law they have now left behind them in their change of covenants.

7-5 explains the old state (covenant) they have left, and 7-6 reaffirms the new state  (covenant) they have entered.

PAUL EXPLAINS THE OLD COVENENT.

It now remains for Paul to explain just why this change was necessary, and so he begins his chain of mental thought processes which will enable us to see what is going on (or not). He works out that the law killed him. WAS THE LAW SIN? He explains that no it was not the law that was the problem, but sin.

Then he enters into the matter of where this sin came from, that it is in us. So then he examines the nature, his nature, our nature, that this law came to, which resulted in his and our death because of this indwelling sin.

Not having come down from heaven as the law had, but being simply one of humanity, one of Adam’s nature, then he had no defense for this nature when it was challenged by the nature of the law, and no defense as to it’s actions as it was provoked into sin by this law.

Recognising right from wrong, and being desirous of being ‘right’, righteous; But having this right and wrong magnified perfectly by the law, made his position even less tenable than before the law confirmed his sinful nature.

This leads to him being a “wretched man”. The answer to his problem is Jesus, as seen in Romans 8.

REWRITING CHAPTER 7.

7-4. Therefore, my brothers, you also were divorced from the law, made to die to it through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit (thoughts and actions) for God.

7-5. For while we were, as long as we were, in our Adamic humanity, while we were not yet in the Spirit, but living under the law, alive to the law, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in the various parts of our body, resulting in fruit (thoughts and actions) for death.

7-6  BUT NOW we have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the SPIRIT and not in oldness of the letter, the written law of God.

AND SO HE SUMS UP THE NEW COVENENT POSITION AS HAVING LEFT THE OLD COVENENT ADAMIC NATURE AND HAVING ENTERED INTO THE SPIRIT NATURE.

7-7. WHAT SHOULD WE SAY ABOUT THE LAW THEN?

What shall we say then, is the law sin? Well if not for the law, my inferior position, and that of the old covenant, would not have been fully exposed. For example, I would not even have known what coveting was if the law had not said “do not covet”.

7-8  But sin, provoked and enabled by the commandment, deceived me and created opportunities by which to create in me all manner of covetousness, for APART from law, sin is dead. [So sin is only alive in the presence of law, it has no life in the presence of Spirit.]

7-9  Law came to me when I was ignorantly alive apart from it, happily indulging my “flesh”, my natural human nature, but because the law of right and wrong came in fullness, I died. My conscience became loaded up with the knowledge of sin and its consequences, with guilt and trepidation.

7-10  And this commandment, which if followed through in all its details, would have enabled the path of  life to become visible to me, did the very opposite, it caused my death.

7-11.   Because sin, exploring every avenue available to it within my natural capacity for human thought, deceived me, deviated me from truth and detoured me from the right path into an outcome of death.

7-12.  SO THEN. (conclusion). The law is holy and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

7-13.  THEREFORE (because of the foregoing) did that which is good cause my death, even though without it, it would not have had the power to do so? NO! It was sin effecting my death through what was good, so that which is good might become  the means of exposing that which is bad.

PAUL NOW FINISHES THE FIRST PART OF HIS DEDUCTIVE REASONING AS TO THE NATURE OF LAW AND SIN, AND NOW TURNS THE ATTENTION UPON HIMSELF TO EXPOSE THE NATURE OF SIN IN HIM AND ALL MANKIND.

7-14.  So we know the law IS spiritual, but I am of Adam’s race which is of a self serving nature, and definitely NOT spiritual. This nature is tied to sin, glued to it, and lives in it, and is enslaved by it.

7-15.  For from experience, that which I have found myself to do from out of this Adamic nature, I have never understood, for I don’t do what I would like to do, what I try to do, but I do the very thing I hate.

7-16.  But if I do what I don’t wish to do, in contradiction of that good as in accordance with law that I would like to do, then I have to agree with the law and say that it is good.

7-17.  So this shows that it is not my will in charge of me, but sin’s will that is in charge of me, controlling me, and resulting in an outcome that is AGAINST my will. It is sin that indwells me that does it.

7-18.  For I know, I have experiential knowledge of, the fact that nothing good dwells in me, or to be more specific, in my flesh, my Adamic nature. Because the wishing to do good is in me but the doing of it is not. It is proven.

7-19.  Because the good that I WISH, that I initiate from MY will to do, doesn’t happen – the outcome is the evil that I do not wish or will to do.

7-20.  But if I do that which I do not wish to do, it’s no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. (Has its own life because of law).

7-21.  I CONCLUDE then that the PRINCIPLE [law or rule] of evil is in me, the one who wishes to do good.

7-22.  For I happily agree with the law of God in my innermost self, in my rational mind of good intentions.

7-23.  But I see a DIFFERENT law, a different principle in my bodily makeup, my thoughts deeds and actions, which opposes the ‘law’ of my mind and its good intentions, and instead, makes me, under law is constantly making me, a prisoner of the law of sin which resides in my bodily functions, my natural earthly makeup.

7-24.  Wretched person that I am! Who could possibly rescue me from this situation, from this body of death? [see 1 Cor. 15-56.  “For the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law, but thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Christ”.]

7-25.  Thanks be to God that Jesus has removed us from this environment of law! So then, to conclude this matter of being under law, I find that I who of myself, (by myself) with my mind am always ready to [potentially] serve “a” lawfulness of God, am in agreeance with His goodness; but equally so, with my Adamic deficient human nature,  am always ready to  (potentially) serve the law of sin.

This “conclusion” is stating how that as natural human beings, although we agree with what is right, when put to the test we cannot do it. That if we are prodded by law, we will bite back with sin. Paul is saying that these are the two latent aspects (‘laws’) of our humanity which when shifted into the dynamics of an actual situation are always in conflict and always results in sin nature taking control over ‘our better self’.

AND THIS IS HOW IT IS UNDER LAW.  But then Romans 8 introduces to this situation, not law, but GRACE, and the whole thing changes from defeat to victory, because we are removed from law and placed under grace, now enjoying the emergent superiority of Spirit over the demise of the law. So “flesh” loses its power in accordance with “..the power of sin is THE LAW, BUT thanks be to God [who gives us the victory through Christ..”].   There is now NO condemnation for those in Jesus, because of what He has done. Rom 8-1,2.

From verse 14 onwards, it may very well be that Paul is not even specifically talking about being under ‘the’ law, but only about his natural nature, which he then compares with the [Mosaic] law to discover his lack of spiritual power to do anything good. The law then only both confirms and worsens his findings.

It is worth mentioning that those who take a different view of this chapter, who say it is about Paul “sinning”, should note that “without law sin is dead” and that sin in accordance with what they would say, is very much alive in potential power here, proving that the context is completely and only relevant to the situation of being “under law”, the old covenant and not the new covenant.

[Paul first explains that under law we are all dead, then explains the outworking of that death][the “works of the flesh”]

 

 

GOD IS ORGANICALLY REPRODUCED IN US [1466a]

The examination of God as life force, or the examination of Him as some rational, logical kind of “space man”, denies the complexity of the creator and His creation. Ultimately we are brought to the conclusion that without intimacy there can be no God in us that would even begin to represent the God who actually is.

Our destiny is to be brought into representation of Him by means of the reproduction of Him in organic form, using our bodies as the platform to do this. In this way we become parts of Him who represent His Spirit, His Spiritual nature, in us, as a copy of His divine Son who became our pilot in this creative endeavour, and that this organic representation itself is to ultimately be brought into the presence of God.

To do this it is necessary for us to accept Him as the forgiver of our natural natures, so we can proceed hand in hand with Him as friend and “lover” so to speak. That His reproduction in us provides the fullness of identity and completeness of the resource we needed in order to be able to fulfill the “mission” with which He has entrusted us, that of receiving and manifesting His Spirit while we are still in our earthly lives.

Which brings the question then, is God ONLY Spirit? If we become new creatures whose “body” is raised like Him, to be with Him, as Jesus was; then we might have to begin to accept that this new nature we gain through and of Him, is also HIS nature, that God himself has the same nature and appearance as His Son. Otherwise, we would have to accept (as many of us probably have done) that the raising of the physical body was just some kind of halfway position for the purpose of giving us some kind of understanding of a matter we would otherwise be incapable of understanding.

The matter of Jesus being raised into the sky, to be then hidden by cloud, or “a” cloud, seems to be obviously contrived to show that we were not in a position to be able to know the exact manner of this happening, and therefore the exact nature of His substance. But we are told He is to return in the same way, indicating that His substance will be exactly as it was when He left, and in conjunction with the eating and drinking that He partook of before He departed us last time, we have no choice but to accept His present state of being, to be exactly in accordance with His Father’s state of being, and also that which our own state of being, will actually BE.

Which has me wandered far from the original statement about God being organic in us (and as he would have been in Jesus also). So our spiritual state and destination will be a direct copy or transformation of the state which we now hold, in terms of our “compliance” with His nature, which we achieve by the transformation of ourselves from those who live to the “flesh” [bodily human nature] to those who, in overcoming (by faith) that “flesh” or basic nature of humanity, to have transformed within us all that is possibly capable of such transformation, in defiance of the natural state in which we began.

The nature of the free gift given us in the form of His Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, is the means and the person of the Spirit God in us who transforms by faith in His strength of being towards us [love], our very basic human nature into something far greater than it began. It would be difficult then to assert that this basic human nature (“flesh”) was not capable of change and was out of reach of change to us, based on the magnitude of the power He has made available to us to do so.

What remnant “fleshly” characteristics still remain after the task of faith has been undertaken then, remain to be proved in the final fire, or also in the fire of the Spirit that may continue to root out such deviancies in the course of our lives, as we encounter these things in the form of opposition to His cause and ours. Jesus dealt with all of His “flesh” ‘and ours’ on the cross, and this is given us as being our victory also. What happened to Him on the cross, that which completed His status of immortality, is now gifted to us. We gain that status of immortal righteousness by FAITH in Him and His victory.

So while we continue to claim His victory, His overcoming, then we have it [Him] also, and that great divide, that great gulf between life and death, will remain so regardless of any ‘enemy’ which seeks to draw us and our consciousness back to our prior earthly status. We now have heavenly status which will not be removed regardless of the imperfections we may be conscious of. Our new body, now organic, will become spiritual as faith creates organic changes that are representative of Him in us, in conjunction with His Spirit that does this for us.

The promise of an eternity of life with Him, begins NOW.

[NOTE.. any explanation or description of God when compared with the vastness of the universe fails to capture the truth of Him. The closest reality is that God is love][Rom.8-11]

GOD IS ORGANICALLY REPRODUCED IN US [1466]

The examination of God as life force, or the examination of Him as some rational, logical kind of “space man”, denies the complexity of the creator and His creation. Ultimately we are brought to the conclusion that without intimacy there can be no God in us that would even begin to represent the God who actually is.

Our destiny is to be brought into representation of Him by means of the reproduction of Him in organic form, using our bodies as the platform to do this. In this way we become parts of Him who represent His Spirit, His Spiritual nature, in us, as a copy of His divine Son who became our pilot in this creative endeavour, and that this organic representation itself is to ultimately be brought into the presence of God.

To do this it is necessary for us to accept Him as the forgiver of our natural natures, so we can proceed hand in hand with Him as friend and “lover” so to speak. That His reproduction in us provides the fullness of identity and completeness of the resource we needed in order to be able to fulfill the “mission” with which He has entrusted us, that of receiving and manifesting His Spirit while we are still in our earthly lives.

Which brings the question then, is God ONLY Spirit? If we become new creatures whose “body” is raised like Him, to be with Him, as Jesus was; then we might have to begin to accept that this new nature we gain through and of Him, is also HIS nature, that God himself has the same nature and appearance as His Son. Otherwise, we would have to accept (as many of us probably have done) that the raising of the physical body was just some kind of halfway position for the purpose of giving us some kind of understanding of a matter we would otherwise be incapable of understanding.

The matter of Jesus being raised into the sky, to be then hidden by cloud, or “a” cloud, seems to be obviously contrived to show that we were not in a position to be able to know the exact manner of this happening, and therefore the exact nature of His substance. But we are told He is to return in the same way, indicating that His substance will be exactly as it was when He left, and in conjunction with the eating and drinking that He partook of before He departed us last time, we have no choice but to accept His present state of being, to be exactly in accordance with His Father’s state of being, and also that which our own state of being, will actually BE.

Which has me wandered far from the original statement about God being organic in us (and as he would have been in Jesus also). So our spiritual state and destination will be a direct copy or transformation of the state which we now hold, in terms of our “compliance” with His nature, which we achieve by the transformation of ourselves from those who live to the “flesh” [bodily human nature] to those who, in overcoming (by faith) that “flesh” or basic nature of humanity, to have transformed within us all that is possibly capable of such transformation, in defiance of the natural state in which we began.

The nature of the free gift given us in the form of His Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, is the means and the person of the Spirit God in us who transforms by faith in His strength of being towards us [love], our very basic human nature into something far greater than it began. It would be difficult then to assert that this basic human nature (“flesh”) was not capable of change and was out of reach of change to us, based on the magnitude of the power He has made available to us to do so.

What remnant “fleshly” characteristics still remain after the task of faith has been undertaken then, remain to be proved in the final fire, or also in the fire of the Spirit that may continue to root out such deviancies in the course of our lives, as we encounter these things in the form of opposition to His cause and ours. Jesus dealt with all of His “flesh” ‘and ours’ on the cross, and this is given us as being our victory also. What happened to Him on the cross, that which completed His status of immortality, is now gifted to us. We gain that status of immortal righteousness by FAITH in Him and His victory.

So while we continue to claim His victory, His overcoming, then we have it [Him] also, and that great divide, that great gulf between life and death, will remain so regardless of any ‘enemy’ which seeks to draw us and our consciousness back to our prior earthly status. We now have heavenly status which will not be removed regardless of the imperfections we may be conscious of. Our new body, now organic, will become spiritual as faith creates organic changes that are representative of Him in us, in conjunction with His Spirit that does this for us.

The promise of an eternity of life with Him, begins NOW.

[NOTE.. any explanation or description of God when compared with the vastness of the universe fails to capture the truth of Him. The closest reality is that God is love][Rom.8-11]

CHRISTIAN DEATH (soul) [11f]

The traditional common view is that when Christians “die”, they go to heaven. Yet scripture speaks differently about this subject. The prime example is Lazarus. When Jesus tarried, waiting for a time before going to the aid of his sick friend, he engaged in conversation with the disciples. “Lazarus sleeps, but I go to wake him”. “If he sleeps, then he is recovering” they said. “Then he told them plainly, Lazarus is dead”.

There are many scriptures which talk of Christians who “sleep”. This subject is often misconstrued as “soul sleep”. This is diversionary, the theological common conception of “soul” is wrong. “And man became a living soul” in Genesis is countered by “The soul that sins shall die”.

Those that sleep in the earth?  “Christ the first fruits, then, when he comes, those who belong to him” The resurrection is one of the raising of the dead. Christians are said to be “asleep” because they are not categorised as “dead”, as in “He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for to him, all are alive”  This does not make them “not dead”, they are simply considered to be alive, because at the time of their death, they were spiritually alive to God.  And it says “He who believes in me, will never die”. But, more to the point, they will “never SEE death”. [they will simply fall asleep, like Stephen] [who died].

People who are “asleep” are not conscious of anything, which agrees with the O.T.   “Souls under the alter” in Rev. is figurative, or whatever you want to call it. One has to be very wary about what can be considered as literal in Revelation.

This perspective is completely backed up in scripture, with only minor references in other directions that people like to latch onto, because of traditional backgrounds that contain superstitious elements. The commonest of these is probably Paul’s “I would rather depart and be with Christ”. While on the surface seeming to say he was going to instantly be with Christ, this does not have to be the case. A two thousand year sleep is still just of one second’s duration in perception. The thief on the cross might be another example. “I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise”. Regardless of where the comma goes, there is the possibility that yes, the death Christ was in, was perhaps actually in “the Garden”, which could symbolise that garden of God, that beginning, that origin, where perhaps the thief, having “cutting it fine” in his repentance, was returned to the innocence that Adam had before the fall.

Regardless of some ambiguity, the case is obviously for “sleep” meaning death, in the overall context.

[later edit] [logic would assume Jesus was in the tomb and the thief was in the ground] [ later still. see also acts 13- 36 ]

[see http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/the-dead-are-dead-until-the-rapture-or-resurrection but don’t necessarily believe some of his other material.]

CHRISTIAN DEATH (soul) [11e]

The traditional common view is that when Christians “die”, they go to heaven. Yet scripture speaks differently about this subject. The prime example is Lazarus. When Jesus tarried, waiting for a time before going to the aid of his sick friend, he engaged in conversation with the disciples. “Lazarus sleeps, but I go to wake him”. “If he sleeps, then he is recovering” they said. “Then he told them plainly, Lazarus is dead”.

There are many scriptures which talk of Christians who “sleep”. This subject is often misconstrued as “soul sleep”. This is diversionary, the theological common conception of “soul” is wrong. “And man became a living soul” in Genesis is countered by “The soul that sins shall die”.

Those that sleep in the earth?  “Christ the first fruits, then, when he comes, those who belong to him” The resurrection is one of the raising of the dead. Christians are said to be “asleep” because they are not categorised as “dead”, as in “He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for to him, all are alive”  This does not make them “not dead”, they are simply considered to be alive, because at the time of their death, they were spiritually alive to God.  And it says “He who believes in me, will never die”. But, more to the point, they will “never SEE death”. [they will simply fall asleep, like Stephen] [who died].

People who are “asleep” are not conscious of anything, which agrees with the O.T.   “Souls under the alter” in Rev. is figurative, or whatever you want to call it. One has to be very wary about what can be considered as literal in Revelation.

This perspective is completely backed up in scripture, with only minor references in other directions that people like to latch onto, because of traditional backgrounds that contain superstitious elements. The commonest of these is probably Paul’s “I would rather depart and be with Christ”. While on the surface seeming to say he was going to instantly be with Christ, this does not have to be the case. A two thousand year sleep is still just of one second’s duration in perception. The thief on the cross might be another example. “I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise”. Regardless of where the comma goes, there is the possibility that yes, the death Christ was in, was perhaps actually in “the Garden”, which could symbolise that garden of God, that beginning, that origin, where perhaps the thief, having “cutting it fine” in his repentance, was returned to the innocence that Adam had before the fall.

Regardless of some ambiguity, the case is obviously for “sleep” meaning death, in the overall context.

[later edit] [logic would assume Jesus was in the tomb and the thief was in the ground] [ later still. see also acts 13- 36 ]

[see http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/the-dead-are-dead-until-the-rapture-or-resurrection but don’t necessarily believe some of his other material.]

WHY ARE YOU STILL LIVING ACCORDING TO THE WORLD? [1465a]

Colossians 2-20. “…why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to…”. The NIV says “…why, as though you still belonged to it.” (the world).

NASB “If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!…”

We are not to be as those who are living in THIS world, we belong to another, to another world and to another ‘someone’ who is Christ who is at the head of this other world, seated in heaven.

Our leadership is of Him, not of ourselves. We are to be led by His Spirit and not the spirit of the world. We were bought with a price. We owe no debt to the ‘flesh’, but to Him who died for us and rose again. We live for HIM.

Our “religion” is not of this world, but is of HIM, of His very substance which is his Spirit, intangible to others, but recognisable by us as the inner voice of righteousness, the cleansed conscience and the Spirit of truth and integrity. We no longer belong to the world, so we should not use it as our frame of reference, nor be dictated to by it or by those who live in it, of it, and to it.

[“Since then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died…” COL.3.][As those returned from death to life]

 

SPIRITS [10d]

Apart from “the spirit of a person”, which is a description of what or who that person is, spirits are basically thought patterns that become mainstream, or obsessive, although even strong memories can be classed as “spirits”.

“I say you are gods” appears in the old testament. Humans were made in the image of God, and as such, have latent power at their disposal. We are “spiritual” beings, because all of the creation has a connective influence on every other part of it.

Our thinking is a part of it all, as God is intimately connected to his creation, knowing the fall of every sparrow, and every hair on our head.

When thought patterns become “locked in” to certain habits or obsessions or suchlike; they have a spiritual influence.

Large amounts of superstition exist because of people observing “happenings” that they then attach to what appears to be the obvious cause.

People see ghosts, because of the spiritual influence existing, possibly through the distortion of the latent power of God, or more correctly, as that power in humans they have as “copies” of the divine.

When we come to biblical times, and particularly perhaps through Greek superstitious influence, we find the cause of all manner of sicknesses being allocated to spirits.

There was a woman who had “a spirit of infirmity”. This seems a bit different, being fairly remote from any idea of mental aberration, and would seem to be one of those ailments that might have been more obviously attributed to curvature of the spine, a short leg, or something.

Others had blindness etc. (some of these have spiritual meanings also).

The “demoniacs” were those who were really in trouble. These were those who were “permanently” mentally affected. Also were descriptions of epileptics.

All these complaints were said to be caused by spirits and of supernatural origins.

There is the possibility that some saw them as “life forces”, as in having a submissive spirit for example, but predominately the superstitious notion would prevail.

The Spirit of God, is the life force of God, his essence, his life. But some of these other spirits were not life promoting, but instead, were life denying, even destructive.

Those who had a “gift” of psychic discernment, who perhaps operated as fortune tellers or similar, were those who were misusing the natural creative force. Apart from a one to one type of operation, there is also a kind of “universal consciousness” sort of thing, similar to the “cloud” in internet terms today, where information is pooled and stored.

By this means, information that we might consider unknowable and inaccessible, so that the telling of it is ascribed to some supernatural entity (such as the dead), is accepted as the only explanation. The “Rosicrucians” say that “thoughts have wings”.

Integrity difficulties arise when, for example, people pray to dead people, which is contrary to God’s intention.

It may be that every theological error directly impacts on a spiritual level, as well as the obvious surface repercussions.

There are many commonly accepted forms of “The supernatural”. But mostly, people are not willing to recognise that God himself is “THE Supernatural”, and it is to him they should be referring all things, and not to some supposed “dead person”, or to some imagined deity.

“Sowing seed” as in “sowing the word”, is the equivalent of “putting thoughts into someone’s head”.  Jesus said “My words to you are spirit and life”. This means that his audible words received by the brain [heart] are transferred into thoughts that represent his spirit, and may become a representation of his spirit and so present life to the hearer.

Catholics take it a bit further with their transubstantiation of the bread and wine. This is when it gets to be superstition  because they believe it supernaturally actually becomes the body and blood of Jesus.

“…for the word of God is living and active..….”

WHY ARE YOU STILL LIVING ACCORDING TO THE WORLD? [1465]

Colossians 2-20. “…why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to…”. The NIV says “…why, as though you still belonged to it.” (the world).

NASB “If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!…”

We are not to be as those who are living in THIS world, we belong to another, to another world and to another ‘someone’ who is Christ who is at the head of this other world, seated in heaven.

Our leadership is of Him, not of ourselves. We are to be led by His Spirit and not the spirit of the world. We were bought with a price. We owe no debt to the ‘flesh’, but to Him who died for us and rose again. We live for HIM.

Our “religion” is not of this world, but is of HIM, of His very substance which is his Spirit, intangible to others, but recognisable by us as the inner voice of righteousness, the cleansed conscience and the Spirit of truth and integrity. We no longer belong to the world, so we should not use it as our frame of reference, nor be dictated to by it or by those who live in it, of it, and to it.

[“Since then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died…” COL.3.][As those returned from death to life]