IF YOU CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SINNER AND A SAINT [1792a]

The term “sinner” seems to have been lost from the Christian vocabulary. It is a bit like the use of the “good man” terminology to which people would inevitably reply with the text where Jesus said that “none is good but God” which uses the same kind of condemnation which others use with “The heart is desperately wicked, who can understand it”. But they then neglect to mention that “Their hearts were cleansed by faith”. Jesus Himself also used the term “good man” in its proper context, that there is no problem in using the term good or bad as in its normal use, that there are good and bad people.

In the church it has not been unusual to hear people say “we are all miserable sinners saved by grace”. No wonder Paul said “wretched man that I am…” when this is all that supposed Christians can come up with. The King James version of the bible says that “sin is the transgression of the law” but this is wrong because it also says that before the law was given, sin was in the world. Other versions read it as “sin is lawlessness” which apparently is a better rendering of the matter.

There is a reason why the law described the condition of sin as being distinct from the condition of non-sinning, and that is so we can tell the difference between these two states. Jesus said to the woman, “GO AND SIN NO MORE” but the church has taught that it is impossible not to sin, and the reason it has taught this is because it is judging from law and not from grace, it has not changed the terms of reference which change the conditions under which the person operates, it is still referencing law and not Spirit.

Paul’s experience in Romans 7 is that of a sinner, not of a saint. The position of being a sinner is the position from which one needs to be rescued so that they cease in the main to sin, because they are now operating from a cleansed heart instead of an evil heart. “The good man out of the treasure of his heart speaks forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart”.

So it is indeed “by their fruit you shall know them”. The sinner naturally sins, the one released from the condition of sin does not naturally sin. John even says “He cannot sin, for the seed of God remains in him”. Or similar. Christ in the heart is the seed of God remaining, the Christian is following Christ, is led by the Spirit, under which condition it says “you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh”. Paul in Romans 7 is under the control of, and being led by, his flesh, not by the Spirit. He confesses he does evil, not good. He also confesses that it is the evil that dwells in him that does this against his own will, his will is completely powerless to do good, because the seed in him is that of the flesh, of evil, it is evil seed.

The point is that many of the church cannot differentiate between good and evil, between a sinner and a saint, and they just want to ‘tar them both with the same brush’ so as to allow sin and sinning to continue. So if you cannot tell the difference between the spiritual and the fleshly, the heavenly and the earthly, which is the whole point of Romans 7, then you should not be attempting to represent the Christian church to others, especially if you are supposed to be a spiritual leader of them.

IF YOU CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SINNER AND A SAINT [1792]

The term “sinner” seems to have been lost from the Christian vocabulary. It is a bit like the use of the “good man” terminology to which people would inevitably reply with the text where Jesus said that “none is good but God” which uses the same kind of condemnation which others use with “The heart is desperately wicked, who can understand it”. But they then neglect to mention that “Their hearts were cleansed by faith”. Jesus Himself also used the term “good man” in its proper context, that there is no problem in using the term good or bad as in its normal use, that there are good and bad people.

In the church it has not been unusual to hear people say “we are all miserable sinners saved by grace”. No wonder Paul said “wretched man that I am…” when this is all that supposed Christians can come up with. The King James version of the bible says that “sin is the transgression of the law” but this is wrong because it also says that before the law was given, sin was in the world. Other versions read it as “sin is lawlessness” which apparently is a better rendering of the matter.

There is a reason why the law described the condition of sin as being distinct from the condition of non-sinning, and that is so we can tell the difference between these two states. Jesus said to the woman, “GO AND SIN NO MORE” but the church has taught that it is impossible not to sin, and the reason it has taught this is because it is judging from law and not from grace, it has not changed the terms of reference which change the conditions under which the person operates, it is still referencing law and not Spirit.

Paul’s experience in Romans 7 is that of a sinner, not of a saint. The position of being a sinner is the position from which one needs to be rescued so that they cease in the main to sin, because they are now operating from a cleansed heart instead of an evil heart. “The good man out of the treasure of his heart speaks forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart”.

So it is indeed “by their fruit you shall know them”. The sinner naturally sins, the one released from the condition of sin does not naturally sin. John even says “He cannot sin, for the seed of God remains in him”. Or similar. Christ in the heart is the seed of God remaining, the Christian is following Christ, is led by the Spirit, under which condition it says “you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh”. Paul in Romans 7 is under the control of, and being led by, his flesh, not by the Spirit. He confesses he does evil, not good. He also confesses that it is the evil that dwells in him that does this against his own will, his will is completely powerless to do good, because the seed in him is that of the flesh, of evil, it is evil seed.

The point is that many of the church cannot differentiate between good and evil, between a sinner and a saint, and they just want to ‘tar them both with the same brush’ so as to allow sin and sinning to continue. So if you cannot tell the difference between the spiritual and the fleshly, the heavenly and the earthly, which is the whole point of Romans 7, then you should not be attempting to represent the Christian church to others, especially if you are supposed to be a spiritual leader of them.

MINISTERS OF RELIGION ARE CALLING GOOD EVIL AND EVIL GOOD [1698a]

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil”. And that is exactly that which most ministers of Christian religion are doing every time they teach that Romans 7 is the description of Paul as a Christian apostle. WOE TO THEM. And if they refuse to commit to a view on this chapter at all, then they are shirking their responsibilities as “shepherds of the flock” and are worse than useless, they are only “lukewarm” and neither hot nor cold. Ready to be “spewed out of the mouth” of Christ Himself. For they are UNABLE TO DISCERN SPIRIT FROM FLESH.

[Blind guides]

MINISTERS OF RELIGION ARE CALLING GOOD EVIL AND EVIL GOOD [1698]

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil”. And that is exactly that which most ministers of Christian religion are doing every time they teach that Romans 7 is the description of Paul as a Christian apostle. WOE TO THEM. And if they refuse to commit to a view on this chapter at all, then they are shirking their responsibilities as “shepherds of the flock” and are worse than useless, they are only “lukewarm” and neither hot nor cold. Ready to be “spewed out of the mouth” of Christ Himself. For they are UNABLE TO DISCERN SPIRIT FROM FLESH.

[Blind guides]

WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY PASTORS MINISTERS AND PRIESTS [1682b]

There is no other way to say this. We and Jesus have been absolutely betrayed by the way many of those who, supposedly trained in theology, should know better than to interpret Romans 7 the way that they have. Jesus provided the perfect sacrifice for sin which others wish to deny at all costs.

Men who are supposedly called by God, don’t want you to know about the absolute cessation of the power of sin over you, and it is absolutely disgraceful that this situation should exist. Of course there are many other things they get wrong, but this one is a matter of life and death, that you should be persuaded to believe in a less than comprehensive salvation; that it is perfectly normal for a Christian to sin, which it is NOT.

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/romans-7.php#.YIEbwB3iuUk

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/saint-or-sinner.php#.YL3YIr7iuUk

WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY PASTORS MINISTERS AND PRIESTS [1682a]

There is no other way to say this. We and Jesus have been absolutely betrayed by the way many of those who, supposedly trained in theology, should know better than to interpret Romans 7 the way that they have. Jesus provided the perfect sacrifice for sin which others wish to deny at all costs.

Men who are supposedly called by God, don’t want you to know about the absolute cessation of the power of sin over you, and it is absolutely disgraceful that this situation should exist. Of course there are many other things they get wrong, but this one is a matter of life and death, that you should be persuaded to believe in a less than comprehensive salvation; that it is perfectly normal for a Christian to sin, which it is NOT.

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/romans-7.php#.YIEbwB3iuUk

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/saint-or-sinner.php#.YL3YIr7iuUk

WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY PASTORS MINISTERS AND PRIESTS [1682]

There is no other way to say this. We and Jesus have been absolutely betrayed by the way many of those who, supposedly trained in theology, should know better than to interpret Romans 7 the way that they have. Jesus provided the perfect sacrifice for sin which others wish to deny at all costs.

Men who are supposedly called by God, don’t want you to know about the absolute cessation of the power of sin over you, and it is absolutely disgraceful that this situation should exist. Of course there are many other things they get wrong, but this one is a matter of life and death, that you should be persuaded to believe in a less than comprehensive salvation; that it is perfectly normal for a Christian to sin, which it is NOT.

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/romans-7.php#.YIEbwB3iuUk

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cross/saint-or-sinner.php#.YL3YIr7iuUk

A COMPANY OF SINNERS [1638a]

A local minister likes to call the church “A company of sinners”. I don’t believe this is scriptural, especially considering the misconception over Romans chapter 7 where similar views promote the idea that Paul in Romans 7 was speaking as a Christian, that this absolutely negative and defeated experience is that of the Christian, which is completely wrong.

The woman caught in adultery was told by Jesus that she was not condemned, but to “go and sin no more”. The whole biblical stance is wrapped up around the notion of sin, and so there also is the notion of NOT sinning. After all, to have faith in Jesus is to bring a person to the end result where they leave their former lives of sin, to become those with new lives where sin becomes something more remote from their present experience compared to their prior experience.

Now certainly we know that the basis of it all is that “natural man” is said to be DEAD “in sin”, whereas the new man is said to be ALIVE in Christ, in the Spirit. Otherwise what would be the point of pitting the “works of the flesh” against “The fruit of the Spirit”?

Under the old covenant the clarity of it was that if you broke the law, you had “sinned”, and needed to go to the priest every so often to ‘confess the sin’ and to obtain forgiveness by means of sacrificing a dove or a sheep or a bull. These sacrifices were to absolve oneself from this sin and the guilt of it.

Romans 6:12 “Do not let sin reign…” 6:14 “sin shall not be master over you…” 16 You are a slave to either sin or obedience. 18 Having been FREED from sin. 20 WHEN you were slaves to sin. 22 But now having been freed from sin and ENSLAVED to righteousness, the result is sanctification resulting in eternal life.

8:14 “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. 8:13 “…for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

IF THE RIGHTEOUS ARE SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE SINNER STAND?

If there is no visible difference between the saint and the sinner, why bother at all? To identify with sinners on the basis of being one yourself is surely a strange way to go about the process of introducing others to the “benefits” of being a Christian. Why then have a list of things which are “sins” at all?

And all of this seems to be to justify this wrong view of Romans 7 that Christians are simply those who continue to be weak in the flesh as depicted by the error of misunderstanding Paul’s apparent behaviour, which though being the result of one being under the law, they claim to be that of one regenerated in Christ.

The benefit of the Christian life is based on the overturning of a legalistic apprehension of the “law”, and an apprehension of the new life based on the fact that the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Having been set free from death (sin), you now freely serve LIFE.

SIN AND DEATH resulted from being under the law, righteousness and life come from being in Christ. To call Christians, to call the church, “a company of sinners”, is to use language that only the enemy might use. It is false and certainly unbiblical, something you should not expect from a Christian minister.

A COMPANY OF SINNERS [1638]

A local minister likes to call the church “A company of sinners”. I don’t believe this is scriptural, especially considering the misconception over Romans chapter 7 where similar views promote the idea that Paul in Romans 7 was speaking as a Christian, that this absolutely negative and defeated experience is that of the Christian, which is completely wrong.

The woman caught in adultery was told by Jesus that she was not condemned, but to “go and sin no more”. The whole biblical stance is wrapped up around the notion of sin, and so there also is the notion of NOT sinning. After all, to have faith in Jesus is to bring a person to the end result where they leave their former lives of sin, to become those with new lives where sin becomes something more remote from their present experience compared to their prior experience.

Now certainly we know that the basis of it all is that “natural man” is said to be DEAD “in sin”, whereas the new man is said to be ALIVE in Christ, in the Spirit. Otherwise what would be the point of pitting the “works of the flesh” against “The fruit of the Spirit”?

Under the old covenant the clarity of it was that if you broke the law, you had “sinned”, and needed to go to the priest every so often to ‘confess the sin’ and to obtain forgiveness by means of sacrificing a dove or a sheep or a bull. These sacrifices were to absolve oneself from this sin and the guilt of it.

Romans 6:12 “Do not let sin reign…” 6:14 “sin shall not be master over you…” 16 You are a slave to either sin or obedience. 18 Having been FREED from sin. 20 WHEN you were slaves to sin. 22 But now having been freed from sin and ENSLAVED to righteousness, the result is sanctification resulting in eternal life.

8:14 “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. 8:13 “…for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

IF THE RIGHTEOUS ARE SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE SINNER STAND?

If there is no visible difference between the saint and the sinner, why bother at all? To identify with sinners on the basis of being one yourself is surely a strange way to go about the process of introducing others to the “benefits” of being a Christian. Why then have a list of things which are “sins” at all?

And all of this seems to be to justify this wrong view of Romans 7 that Christians are simply those who continue to be weak in the flesh as depicted by the error of misunderstanding Paul’s apparent behaviour, which though being the result of one being under the law, they claim to be that of one regenerated in Christ.

The benefit of the Christian life is based on the overturning of a legalistic apprehension of the “law”, and an apprehension of the new life based on the fact that the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Having been set free from death (sin), you now freely serve LIFE.

SIN AND DEATH resulted from being under the law, righteousness and life come from being in Christ. To call Christians, to call the church, “a company of sinners”, is to use language that only the enemy might use. It is false and certainly unbiblical, something you should not expect from a Christian minister.

IT IS NOT THAT WE ARE JUDGED TO BE WORTHY OF DEATH, BUT THAT WE ARE JUDGED TO BE DEAD [1297a]

“We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ”. It is not so much as to decide for or against the moral worth of what we have done while in the body, as a simple fact of whether you are dead or alive. To be alive is to be in Christ, and your deeds will follow you. But your deeds will also follow you if you are dead and have been producing dead works, ie, are still a sinner, and actively sinning. Not that it matters, because it simply means you are dead. If there is no life in us,¬†we can’t produce the good things of life.

Jesus came to “destroy the works of the devil”, IE to deal with that which is actively producing sin, and to deal with the root cause of sin. “Go and sin no more”.

[We are continually ‘appearing before the judgement seat of Christ’][Jesus says John 3-18 “He who does not believe is judged already..”][..everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come to it..]